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Jeff Smith:Hey Peter
Blake Ian 🎶:Hey all! Anyone here read Peter's review of Game Change 2: Double Down?
Peter Hamby:Howdy Jeff
Jeff Smith:what's up buddy? you just coming back from phoenix?
Peter Hamby:caught night flight back last night. almost missed my plane because George W. Bush made a surprise appearance at the RGA event
Peter Hamby:had to stay and try to get a readout from various governors
Jeff Smith:whoa that's interesting - you think that is related to the recent buzz about Jeb leaning towards going in '16?
Tom Lorenzo:@ Blake: Yup, read it this morning, actually... great insight on what is, well, great insight.
Peter Hamby:actually, funny you should ask. when i sent a note around CNN that 43 had showed up a bunch of folks here asked the same
Peter Hamby:but turns out Christie, who became RGA chair yesterday, invited Bush during his recent visit to Dallas
Jeff Smith:and what was the readout from the other govs? the republican party seems to have moved on pretty quickly from him
Jeff Smith:but isn't this just about the first explicitly political thing W has donw in 5 years, other than the brief immig speech at the library dedication
Peter Hamby:well, there wasn't much of a readout at all. a few of us - Shush Walshe from ABC, Zeke Miller from TIME, David Drucker from the Examiner - AP's Ken Thomas - were waiting by the elevators
Peter Hamby:catching govs -- asking them "What did he say in there?"
Peter Hamby:and they all had pat answers, "great lunch" .. "cool conversation" etc
Jeff Smith:so you're trying to say the room wasn't as leaky as the Obama or Romney campaigns?
Ryan Wilson:they didn't let you in?
Peter Hamby:haha. not even. Bush requested it be a secret, and definitely closed press
Jeff Smith:so let's talk about Jeb
Peter Hamby:you saw how quickly the DGA pounced on the appearance
Peter Hamby:fire away
Jeff Smith:because he represents a phenomenon that is pretty relevant to stuff you wrote abt in your excellent Harvard study "Did Twitter Kill the Boys on the Bus"
Jeff Smith:so, before we go into Jeb, give us a quick synopsis
Peter Hamby:well, it was pretty clear from the 2012 campaign that relations between the press and the campaigns were pretty sour
Peter Hamby:the larger argument is that the web, and twitter, specifically, have changed the incentives and behaviors of political journalists
Jeff Smith:yep, reporters seemed to get almost no access to candidates or even senior staff, on the record
Peter Hamby:a premium on speed, scoops, etc ... and campaigns have shut their candidates down as a consequence
Jeff Smith:what were the old incentives/behaviors
Peter Hamby:so the notion of McCain doing his Straight Talk thing in 2012 is, well, pretty notional
Jeff Smith:so it seems like a vicicous cyckle
Jeff Smith:the more young reporters tweet snark abt everything happening on the campaign and bus...
Jeff Smith:the more campaigns hide candidates and try to control every aapspect of the sg
Peter Hamby:yes, but that was partly the romney campaign's fault
Jeff Smith:of the message
Peter Hamby:to use them as an example, as i do in the paper
Jeff Smith:Oh, go F** yourself, Peter
Ryan Wilson:Here's Peter's review in the Washington Post, BTW: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/review-double-down-on-the-2012-election-by-mark-halperin-and-john-heilemann/2013/11/01/8bf4f050-3fdd-11e3-a751-f032898f2dbc_story.html
Jeff Smith:explain the reference there peter
Peter Hamby:the candidate was sheltered, hidden from reporters. and they had their reasons. but with nothing to write on, if you were stuck on the bus or the plane, you were left with a "news hole" filled by mundane observations
Peter Hamby:and twitter was the outlet
Peter Hamby:i'm glad i didn't have twitter in 2008, because i would have been guilty of the same things
Jeff Smith:and then this dude named Rick Gorka on the Romney campaign got pretty frustrated one day...
Peter Hamby:and i was to an extent in 2012
Peter Hamby:but the romney camp really limited access to their guy ,and it hurt them i think
Jordan Birnbaum:This was definitely a theme during the last season of The Newsroom….
Jeff Smith:over in Poland, I believe, during a romney visit to a holy site
Peter Hamby:yes, he told reporters yelling Qs at Mitt to "shove it"
Peter Hamby:in hindsight he regrets it
Jeff Smith:you friend ly with him?
Peter Hamby:he even told me in the paper, when i asked him what advice he would give to his successor on the road in 2016, that he wished he had fought for reporters more
Jeff Smith:because you seemed to have pretty decent relations with the Republican campaigns last cycle
Peter Hamby:because cranky reporters don't do anyone any good
Jordan Birnbaum:He might regret saying it, but the sentiment behind it was real...
Jeff Smith:he wished he fought for reporters, internally, to get them more/better access
Peter Hamby:i only went out in the bubble a few times but we had a nice enough relationship
Peter Hamby:but most of my relationships were pre-existing
Jeff Smith:from 08
Peter Hamby:yes, more access, or just access to basic information, like, "Where is Romney staying tomorrow?"
Jeff Smith:and do you think romeny got worse coverage than O because of more tension b/w staff and reporters?
Jordan Birnbaum:It's not like Obama has been an open book...
Peter Hamby:07-08 yeah. covering 2012 was a much more rewarding experience because my sources were so much better, and i knew people from before
Jeff Smith:you write in your paper about how it's sort of impossible to think that being kept tot in the dark wont affect coverage adversely
Peter Hamby:its hard to compare, because covering an incumbent is so different. staff/security is so tight.
Peter Hamby:but anyone who thinks reporters covering the White House are in the tank are sorely mistaken. that's a pretty toxic relationship over there
Jeff Smith:u think 2012 reporters were too snarky on twitter?
Jeff Smith:It's not like Obama has been an open book...
Ryan Wilson:Obama's managed to appear more open just by being accessible in a controlled way -- i.e. releasing news on instagram.
Peter Hamby:yes, and so do they. at least the ones i talked to. there was some regret about it.
Jeff Smith:apparently some of the ppl watching agree with you there peter
Peter Hamby:no, Obama is not. hardly.
Trey Williamson:@Peter, Im going to start a new blog "Tight Incumbent Coverage"
Peter Hamby:look, the Romney campaign thought, in terms of access, that they only had to grant as much access as Obama was giving to reporters
Peter Hamby:which was, basically, zilch
Jeff Smith:you think that regret has resulted in a less snarky twitter for reporters? seems to be it's been approx as successful as the RNC autopsy
Peter Hamby:but that's a bit of a misunderstanding, i think
Peter Hamby:because Obama had won a national election. Romney still had to surpass a threshold with voters and reporters
Peter Hamby:haha. i think reporters are still snarky. so are you! and anyone on twitter
Peter Hamby:pew has measured this. twitter is just a more negative space
Jeff Smith:i'm snarky?
Peter Hamby:in fact, the most negative media platform
Jeff Smith:so jeb
Peter Hamby:like, the other day
Jeff Smith:yes, go ahead
Peter Hamby:for whatever reason, i wasn't on twitter very much. i was busy. and i felt a bit happier about life.
Peter Hamby:but my friend scott conroy, wo writes for realclearpolitics
Peter Hamby:was emailing me all day about crap that other people were saying on twitter
Jeff Smith:thats because you were in Phoenix and you're a single dude
Peter Hamby:i was like, dude, take a break
Peter Hamby:haha, yes
Jeff Smith:ok we'll get back to your dating ife at the end
Peter Hamby:scottsdale, home of TheDirty.com, I believe
Jeff Smith:i know there are horded are single women waiting for that part
Jeff Smith:but jeb
Peter Hamby:yes, jeb
Jeff Smith:let's talk about his sort of re-emergence this year
Peter Hamby:"sort of"
Jeff Smith:and how it relates to the current warp speed at which media moved
Jeff Smith:his book seemed to flop
Jeff Smith:because he seemed to back away from former support for comp immig reform just as the rest of the party, in the wake of november 12, was coming towards it...
Tom Lorenzo:What's with all the snark? Really? Is it being used to counter the "all reporters are in the tank" narrative?
Jordan Birnbaum:If we end up with a Clinton-Bush election in 2016, let's just start calling them the Tudors and The Yorks...
Peter Hamby:which seemed to a mixed message, because Jeb has, at least conceptually, been a Hispanic-friendly face for the GOP
Jeff Smith:What's with all the snark? Really? Is it being used to counter the "all reporters are in the tank" narrative?
Jeff Smith:yes, one of the few
Peter Hamby:and then i saw him at a Faith and Freedom conference this spring
Peter Hamby:hosted by Ralph Reed
Jeff Smith:and do you think the party has moved at all on immig? they at least seem to be marginalizing the steve kings of the world who make ridic comments
Peter Hamby:and he gave a speech before a group of socon activists
Jeff Smith:tom, i'm not sure that's the reason...i just think it';s fun and reporters are smart and bored
Peter Hamby:and made a comment about supporting non-traditional families
Jeff Smith:jeb did that?
Peter Hamby:it fell so flat
Jeff Smith:like a fart in church huh?
Jeff Smith:so look, jeb appears out of step with his party on a set of issues now
Jeff Smith:he was out there last year on immig
Peter Hamby:yeah and he also made a remark about how hispanics are "more fertile"
Jeff Smith:marriage equality
Jeff Smith:and even saying he'd have taken that $1 dollar of tax hikes for $10 of deficit reduction deal
Peter Hamby:he isn't for marriage equality
Andrei Berman:Ruby Cramer is here. She is a first rate reporter.
Jeff Smith:does that mean he can't recover? those are three big issues to be at odds with base
Peter Hamby:it was a vague comment, i think more about single moms
Jeff Smith:well not marriage equality but" supporting non-traditional families'
Peter Hamby:but to an audience of christian conservatives, it was not a good move
Ryan Wilson:agreed, @andrei. hey ruby!
Jeff Smith:aren't 40+% of the kids inthe country born out of wedlock?
Jeff Smith:i mean, what, are you trying to write off 47% of the population or something???
Jeff Smith:oh wait
Peter Hamby:i think Jeb, while deeply respected in Republican circles, will have problems firing up the base
Jeff Smith:so did romney and he got the nod
Peter Hamby:but also his last statewide race was 2002
Jeff Smith:so does jeb just needed a really crowded field of flawed candidates like romney benefited from?
Peter Hamby:think about the media environment in 2002
Jeff Smith:last time HRC ran was 2008
Jeff Smith:how do you think she's adjusting to the new media enviro?
Peter Hamby:right, which in terms of media disruption, might as well have been the Sixties
Jeff Smith:i remember she had a silly tweet about the woman who swam the english channel at an inopportune time
Peter Hamby:yeah that was wildly ill-timed
Peter Hamby:and she was roundly mocked by the political class about that one
Peter Hamby:but i think it was in that Joe Hagan NYMAG piece
Jeff Smith:and she's got phillippe reines firing off nasty emails to TPM/etc that get mocked
Peter Hamby:in which one of her advisers said "Hillary doesn't make the same mistake twice"
Jeff Smith:hey Ruby!
Peter Hamby:right, i have to think they understand the shifts in the media since 2008
Jeff Smith:and do you think they do?
Peter Hamby:but from a press perspective, they aren't super helpful
Peter Hamby:a larger point which i think people miss
Peter Hamby:is that a lot of reporters are really young
Peter Hamby:and while they respect the Clintons, they don't put them on a pedestal
Peter Hamby:and they value authenticity
Jeff Smith:If we end up with a Clinton-Bush election in 2016, let's just start calling them the Tudors and The Yorks...
Jeff Smith:yep - f*ing absurd Jordan
Ryan Wilson:true, i know the white house political reporter for politico... 26!
Peter Hamby:who's going to get better coverage? HRC surrounded by Secret Service and a horde of aides? or an insurgent candidate holding court on his/her campaign bus for hours?
Andrei Berman:Sorry to put Ruby on blast by the way. Just really enjoyed her candor in the Michael Hastings NY Mag piece and figured I'd note it.
Jeff Smith:like Howard dean, at first
Jeff Smith:and mccain etc
Jeff Smith:so is that cory booker?
Peter Hamby:look, in a general, i get that things have to be locked down to an extent
Jeff Smith:because it appears E-dubs doesn't wanna be that person
Peter Hamby:but i think its important for the country that reporters are able to figure out what makes these people go
Peter Hamby:increasingly, though, that task doesn't happen on the bus
Peter Hamby:do you think E-Dubs wants it?
Peter Hamby:i have a hard time seeing it. though i think Hillary is wildly more vulnerable than people assume
Jeff Smith:nah, i think she wants to change policy, i'm not convinced she wants to be president
Peter Hamby:both in a primary and general
Jeff Smith:you and i have been saying that for a year
Jeff Smith:others are beginning to
Peter Hamby:yeah, look
Peter Hamby:people rag on Stu Stevens
Jordan Birnbaum:Do you think Twitter is diminishing our capacity as an electorate to think beyond 140 characters? Have we lost the capacity for nuanced and layered thinking?
Peter Hamby:but he was always chewing this rag during the campaign
Jeff Smith:vulnerable in a primary on wall st issues and being one of the most hawkish ppl in the WH for 4 years
Peter Hamby:that people like to look forward, not backward
Peter Hamby:and he is right, i suspect
Jeff Smith:and vulnerable in a general for structural reasons
Peter Hamby:and HRC taking money from Private Equity and interest groups who oppose Obamacare?
Jeff Smith:i mean, if the economy cintinues to sputter along
Jordan Birnbaum:Elizabeth Warren for President '16!!!!
Jeff Smith:and O is anywhere near 40 then structurally it's a very, very difficult race for any Dem
Peter Hamby:yes. yes.
Jeff Smith:HRC def not acting in the way one worried about her left flank would
Jeff Smith:so look
Rachael Workman 💥:Can't say i disagree, @Jordan.
Jeff Smith:so, some political scientists might argue that it really isn't all that important for reporters to be there on the bus in a prez election after all
Jeff Smith:because the ups and downs of a presidential campaign are just, sort of illusory
Peter Hamby:that's the argument in The Gamble
Jeff Smith:and that the election is largely determined long before e day
Jeff Smith:thots on that?
Peter Hamby:which everyone should read
Peter Hamby:i think you can make that case in 2012, to a point
Peter Hamby:a lot of was baked in
Jeff Smith:a lot was
Peter Hamby:but it was such a specific kind of election
Jeff Smith:let me put you on the spot here
Peter Hamby:and i think campaigns are so much more predictable now than they used to be
Peter Hamby:sweet. go.
Jeff Smith:with regard to whether campaign evenets matter much: if Obama debates 3 times like the 1st debate, does he win?
Peter Hamby:no way
Jeff Smith:I agree. what do you think the academic community would say?
Rachael Workman 💥:i'm shocked by that response.
Jeff Smith:i watched all three debates with crowds of several hundred people
Jeff Smith:i have never seen young people as down as i did after that first debate. You couldn't have gotten those college students to go canvass after that first debate if you'd promised a beer, a shot, and a naked girl/guy behind every door
Tom Lorenzo:He was certainly awful in that first debate. No question about it. And when it was supposed to be a "strength," that certainly caused pause.
Jeff Smith:i think three debates like that seriously hampers their GOTV efforts
Ryan Wilson:it was the altitude, guys. the altitude.
Peter Hamby:counterpoint: George W. Bush got rolled in his debates. and still won
Jeff Smith:and probably costs them a couple close states
Jeff Smith:he did
Peter Hamby:in '04
Jeff Smith:but people expected him to get rolled in debates
Jordan Birnbaum:George W. Bush didn't win. He became president, but he didn't win.
Peter Hamby:but i don't think there was anyone in Chicago, as much as they projected the "we got this" vibe after the campaign, who wasn't freaking out after Denver
Peter Hamby:in that spin room
Jeff Smith:Obama was expected to be eloquent and in command - leftover images from 08
Peter Hamby:Cutter and Plouffe couldn't have fled fast enough
Jeff Smith:so that's the scene that opens Double Down
Jeff Smith:which you wrote a spectacular review of in the WaPo a few weeks back
Jeff Smith:and you argue in your review that - while a lot of the funbdmanetals are of course baked in - people need to know how these "strange and wily men" who think they're up to running the country handle adversity and pressure
Peter Hamby:yeah look
Peter Hamby:John Sides (MonkeyCage) tweeted at me about that
Peter Hamby:i really like the emergence of science and analytics as tools to measure campaigns
Peter Hamby:lord knows too many in the press don't know how to read a poll
Jeff Smith:i do too
Peter Hamby:but nate silver is so damn dismissive of traditional reporters
Peter Hamby:i don't think the same dynamic exists the other way around
Peter Hamby:there is room for numbers-crunching and personality in political coverage
Peter Hamby:i talked to a Romney guy the other day
Peter Hamby:who pointed to the exit poll number about how Obama "cares about people like you" as the main reason Mitt lost
Peter Hamby:that's a gut thing, which can be measured
Peter Hamby:but those gut impressions come from stories, and events, and behaviors covered by reporters
Jeff Smith:this seeming tension/disconnect b/w a lot of academics and reporters
Jeff Smith:has some roots in the incentives of academia
Jeff Smith:academics get promoted by publishing
Jeff Smith:to publish you usually, tho not always, need good dats
Jeff Smith:data is most readily available - like the National election Study, etc - about prez campaigns
Jeff Smith:which are - arguably - the least susceptible to campaign effects - and have the most baked in
Jeff Smith:it's hard to get data on primary campaigns
Jeff Smith:for one thing - they happen at all diff times throughout the country
Jeff Smith:which doesn't lend itself to study
Peter Hamby:yeah good point
Jeff Smith:but primaries are the types of campaigns where campaign effects are STRONGEST
Peter Hamby:and caucuses are difficult to survey of course
Jeff Smith:and you know what - given the percentage of districts that are more than 55% one way or the other, increasingly out policymakers are determined in primaries, not in uncompetitive geberals
Peter Hamby:why Bachmann having those home school lists was so crucial
Andrei Berman:what i don't like about the data reporting is that some of the data devotees sort of dismissively assume that the public needn't understand their findings in order for them to be relevant. I think some stats prof could make a killing teaching laymen
Andrei Berman:how to critically read Silver, et al
Jeff Smith:thots on that as underlying reason for disconnect about whether or not campaigns matter - acadmics tend to most often study the types of campaign in which campaigns matter least?
Peter Hamby:well, you know more about academia than i, because you are a noted and celebrated academic
Jeff Smith:when i was in the Mo senate, homeschoolers were some of the best advocates. incredably politicall engaged
Jeff Smith:LOL ya right
Peter Hamby:i also think there's just some DNA differences here
Jeff Smith:noted and celebrated for being the rare felon to get a full time academic job this side of Bill ayres
Peter Hamby:i just enjoy getting out in the country and engage with people on the ground
Peter Hamby:i can't imagine covering a campaign from a coffee shop in green point
Peter Hamby:unless they have Stumptown
Jeff Smith:so look, let me close up by spending the last 5-10 mins here on some questions for how this stuff might change
Jeff Smith:what could improve media coverage of politics?
Peter Hamby:one thing i love about twitter
Peter Hamby:is that it's a meritocracy
Peter Hamby:i think you have seen over the last five years
Peter Hamby:a lot of hacks get weeded out in favor of smart, hungry folks
Peter Hamby:who rise based on their reporting
Peter Hamby:and are now on TV, etc
Jordan Birnbaum:independent media without a profit incentive!!! that's how you improve it, IMO.
Peter Hamby:and have a voice
Peter Hamby:and like i said, internet news consumers appreciate authenticity from reporters and pundits
Peter Hamby:i just think putting people who LOVE this stuff on the beat is a simple fix
Jeff Smith:I know that The Fix appreciates your original voice
Peter Hamby:people who gorge themselves on polls, and books, and news in their free time
Peter Hamby:i also think
Peter Hamby:news orgs need to not think they have to cover everything
Peter Hamby:because its impossible, you get spread so thin
Peter Hamby:concentrate on your strengths, have confidence in your editorial judgments
Jordan Birnbaum:they shouldn't have to worry about editing news for fear of losing sponsors, either...
Peter Hamby:if another news org breaks something. cool. confirm it. good for them.
Jeff Smith:speaking of LOVING this stuff, what were your 3 fave moments in Double Down? and what one moment will actually be consequential going fwd?
Peter Hamby:but you'll have some kind of scoop or great story the next day
Peter Hamby:i loved the Huntsman stuff
Jeff Smith:he did not come off well. at all.
Peter Hamby:such a disconnect between the image and the man
Jeff Smith:and arguably violated the Hatch Act
Peter Hamby:uh. yes.
Peter Hamby:i mean, the scene-setting in the book is great
Jeff Smith:i have never understood pols who won't f*cking ask for $
Jeff Smith:i mean
Peter Hamby:again, you can argue that some of the strategic moves in the book that were imbued with such drama weren't as important as portrayed
Jeff Smith:it's like saying you're going to be a Miner but you'd prefer not to dig.
Peter Hamby:but like, Newt in the museum in Chicago, just wandering around, at the height of his campaign?
Peter Hamby:so good.
Jeff Smith:and what's the most consequential nugget?
Peter Hamby:most consequential is the Christie stuff, by far
Jeff Smith:is it in chris chsitie's research book?
Jeff Smith:which piece of the research?
Peter Hamby:and some of that was already out in the public domain, the reseach that Romney's vetters dug up
Peter Hamby:but this serves it up for reporters
Jeff Smith:i can't remember, did Double down have the stuff about michelle brown, his aide he put in charge of FOIA requests and also loaned $46k to?
Peter Hamby:she is mentioned, though not by name
Peter Hamby:and that will be scrutinized
Jeff Smith:one reason you're a great reporter is how you actually love spending time talking to voters.activists etc and how that feel comes off in your reporting
Peter Hamby:i actually wasn't familiar with the Madoff connection, that he lobbied for a firm with Madoff on the board (before his scandal)
Jeff Smith:based on the time you spend w repub activists, can christie win them over?
Peter Hamby:yeah, i do
Peter Hamby:here's the deal
Peter Hamby:the loud voices in the R primary who love Ted Cruz, etc
Peter Hamby:he probably won't ever win them over
Peter Hamby:but in a crowded primary, who cares?
Peter Hamby:dude, Mitt Romney -- MITT ROMNEY -- almost won Iowa
Jeff Smith:my first primary for Congress was 10 people
Peter Hamby:i saw that in a movie, i think?
Jeff Smith:i wouldn't have run if there were less than 7 in the race
Peter Hamby:but yeah
Jeff Smith:because i didn't even try to compete for 50% of the voters
Peter Hamby:im interested in the calendar for Christie, though
Jeff Smith:i knew being for gay marriage and open borders i wasn't getting people in rural missouri
Peter Hamby:history says you have to win at least one of the first few primaries
Peter Hamby:so he needs NH
Jeff Smith:so i just tried to win 50% of the 50% i could reach, since i thot 25% could win for me - he could have same model.
Peter Hamby:but Rand will play there, and who knows who else will
Peter Hamby:and if RNC shortens the calendar, which they want to do, an early frontrunner can win the nod
Peter Hamby:but if things go long, like they did in '12
Peter Hamby:Christie will have the $$$ and org to last
Jeff Smith:yep, they're already selling popcorn in NH for the Rand/Christie battles. two guys who kinda sorta just don't give a f***
Peter Hamby:i do think CC is a rare political talent
Peter Hamby:crossover appeal
Peter Hamby:as demonstrated in NJ
Jeff Smith:yeah i went and watched him last week in my hometown, mostly dem audience. and they loved him.
Peter Hamby:but even people who disagree with him kinda like him. hell, i know 2 Ds who voted for him in NJ
Jeff Smith:whoops, 3 weeks ago now i guess.
Peter Hamby:this is not political science at all
Peter Hamby:but who beats Christie in the beer test?
Peter Hamby:no one
Jeff Smith:maybe Biden.
Peter Hamby:true, right
Peter Hamby:god bless him
Jeff Smith:who somehow doesn't even drink!
Jeff Smith:what a travesty that is.
Peter Hamby:i don't see how he doesn't run
Jeff Smith:the only other person who might beat him inthe beer test is O'Malley
Peter Hamby:like, he may realize he can't win
Jeff Smith:but he doesn't quite show that side to voters.
Peter Hamby:but why not spend a year eating ice cream and hanging out with bikers and marching in parades and talking about his legacy on a debate stage?
Peter Hamby:downside to that?
Jeff Smith:but maybe he'll start having more beers with them
Jeff Smith:no downside at all. damn it would be fun to cover, huh?
Peter Hamby:The Onion needs to hire a full time Biden embed
Peter Hamby:oh yeah
Peter Hamby:and he wouldn't resist a jab at Hillary
Jeff Smith:look buddy, we gotta wrap up...but you've been great and i am so happy to see all your success the last few months with your GHarvard study and DD review and the rest of your solid reporting
Peter Hamby:thanks amigo. or as Reince Priebus would say, "Thanks, pal."
Jeff Smith:Thanks for coming by to Tawk
Peter Hamby:good to be here. lata.
Tom Lorenzo:Fantastic stuff, gents! Thanks for doing this
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samm hallo:Any girls here from Charlotte ?